Stat Increases

Alright guys, i have been thinking about this for years, but until now, i never felt like the group i played with would use this correctly. One of my biggest issues with 2nd edition is that stat increases are nearly impossible to increase, save really powerful magic like wish spells and the deck of many things. I believe stats should be able to go up and down at the dms discretion, and i have always instituted that.

I also think that the players should have a small level of control over stats as well, not just from level 1 on. I have been toying around with the idea of letting characters increase 1 stat point, relevant to their development 1 time for every 4 or 5 levels. Please let me know what you guys think. i really need input on this.

You know I feel about this, we discussed it earlier today.

If the stat increase is trained for and makes sense for the development of the character, I am entirely for the implementation of this optional rule. T'alev could use another CON point. :-P (That Belladonna really messed up his insides and gave him better gastric fortitude.)

Oh, and so long as we institute a stat line cap, I am all for it even more.

Nelo could use that strength point back.

I like the idea but think, like a new weapon proficiency, you should have to work for it and it should never effect bonuses. For example a priest can's get more bonus spells because his wisdom increased from a 16 to 17 and so forth. But I think if a character puts enough effort into something they should be rewarded for it over time, at least everything but charisma, you can't really change that by lifting weights lol. Regardless, you can effect everything your character can do, why not stats.

A couple of points here: i would make it clear that the time it would take to earn the stat point would be represented by the vast number of levels it would take. I would only allow increases in stats you have been using extensively, either through proficiencies, or simply being more wise and thoughtful about your actions (an example for wisdom). a reckless character would be hard pressed to convince me to increase his wisdom. a character who has been in hand to hand only 5 times in the last 6 months would not be able to increase his strength, and so on. Charisma can also increase, as tal gave example to. Charisma is more than looks, it is also the attitude of the character. Belril for example has made it a habit of knowing just what to say to the opposite sex, particularly lowantha.

I would actually still allow the stat increase to affect bonuses. I know that this risks the min/max issue, but i feel like this is something we dont have to worry about at this point. If you guys were min/maxers, i wouldnt play with you.

I like the idea, especially considering a psionicist. No matter how much Vorian uses his abilities, he doesn't get better at them. He will always need a roll of 12 or 13 or under in order to 'cast' them. However, that issue is an entirely different issue I have with psionicists (warriors can get proficiencies, general proficiencies can be improved with more slots, yet no matter how much i move a flame I can't be more consistent with it).

And about a priest getting bonus spells, there is a way around that. It's not like he would go from the having no bonus spells to the amount he would have had if he had that ability from the beginning, but instead would gain that bonus from there on out. If I am understanding how they work right.

But I wouldn't mind my strength point back, or my charisma point, or my charisma point, or my constitution point, or my strength point (I think I started with 10, though now I can't remember how I lost my first one, maybe it was just 9 before).

Added a poll to the top using my admin privileges. Don't multi-vote with different accounts.

I just voted a straight yes. Those maybes are worded in such a way that choosing one of them would have made me feel slightly narcissistic.

I vote yes. I always found it a bit odd that over the course of a year or two a character who is fighting demons, outwitting thieves guilds and surviving all the other craziness an adventurer goes through that they wouldn't occasionally get smarter/wiser/quicker/more charismatic etc.

And if we're considering adding these retroactively, I have two thoughts: 1 Belril is occasionally more clever than his twin 13s in Int and Wis should probably allow 2 Belril is definitely too well-spoken for his Cha 8, even if he does mostly save his serious efforts for women.

I think the easiest, most sensible limit would be to say whatever your racial maximum is, that's as high as a level-up stat-bonus can take you.

I will board the Yes Train. I know they wont be handed out like candy. I like that the stats, if any, we increase is based off HOW we play our characters.

as long as everyone is on board, i will start implementing this soon. If you are jumping up and down to get to it, send me a message or feel free to post a reply here on what you think would be an appropriate stat increase for your character. As of right now, everyone has 1 stat point to work with. I will be deciding soon whether you get one every 4 or 5 levels (probably 4). i realize this will make a difference for some of your characters.

I imagine Belril is the only character that would get 2 points if you choose to go every 4 rather than 5.

I'd say one point should definitely go to Charisma, as you pointed out Belril has occasional flashes of charming that really ought to have some stat-line back-up.

The other point (if you go 1 per 4) should probably go to Wisdom, partly to explain Belril's tendency to remember obscure details and factoids about both the Realms in general and his past adventures as well. And partly just for general clever stunts.

If anything, I believe Tal would be looking at Wisdom, Constitution, Dexterity, or Strength.

Constitution: Consuming that Belladonna really messed up his insides. Curing his Lycanthropy is a feat not many characters can say they have accomplished. His hardiness and vigour are always apparent in his adventures.

Wisdom: Spending more and more time training animal companions and discovering his abilities to read their emotions and subtle nuances of their behavior. Additionally, having established more of a connection with his deity and familiarizing himself with matters associated with such.

Dexterity: When isn't T'alev jumping somewhere or climbing on top on something? His practice with two-handed weapon fighting style also requires some dexterity.

Strength: I've shot my bow twice now with my character. He is always in physical combat. 'Nuff said.

I suppose whichever he gets depends on what you believe applies most to his activities. But I am thinking STR or CON most.

To belril; charisma is obviously first on the list, no arguments there. I agree that he has been particularly creative and remember obscure thoughts, but i feel that his heavy handed approach needs to be addressed. He is always in close combat, and borders on being a thug in some situations (as befits most bounty hunters). Yes he has been wise, but he has been equally strong and brutal at times. I would leave this choice up to you, but the first stat increased i would require to be charisma.

To Tal; I agree with your understanding of constitution and even strength. Wisdom however i would completely disagree with. His outburst with Tardeth, and the lack of direction regarding the hunt for Lycanthrope shows the exact opposite. for that same reason i dont think charisma needs to change. these are not bad things, simply an indicator that he has not grown more wise, as may befit the character. Dexterity makes a bit more sense, but as you pointed out, he has used his bow twice. Firing a bow takes more dexterity than using a weapon two handed. The climbing takes at least a bit of dexterity of course, but i would argue your ring has more of an affect on those actions than anything else. hard to say where/when magic overrides skill. Also, i believe intelligence would need to be addressed. Primarily this is personal opinion, and based on alot of the messages you send me out of game. Tal seems to be constantly inquiring about every detail of some situations. He overlooks very little, and at times even delves into things in more detail than is required, as would someone of higher intelligence.

With nelo/vorian; Matt, Aaron, and i already spoke tonight, and discussed where we think stats should go for them (Vorian: wisdom and intelligence. Nelo: wisdom and strength).

As for Azerian, i would like to hear Mr. Power's thoughts before i speak my own.

Well, if it's every 4 levels, I am still 4000 xp from level 8. But I'd say wisdom should go first, especially when remembering those early campaigns.

Edit: There I am.

<-------------- hehehehe

TheDungeonMaster wrote:i believe intelligence would need to be addressed. Primarily this is personal opinion, and based on alot of the messages you send me out of game. Tal seems to be constantly inquiring about every detail of some situations. He overlooks very little, and at times even delves into things in more detail than is required, as would someone of higher intelligence.

I would never have considered this. I see asking too many questions as a bit of a weakness, in all honesty. It makes me feel like I know nothing.

So, I guess if you believe INT, I would have to agree with you by that logic. So, for Tal, INT / CON / STR. Whether or not he gets additional INT (x2) before he gets any CON or STR is subjective. I'd welcome stat increases of any kind.